How Senior Move Management Companies Impact the Way We Age

Our Conversation with Greg Gunderson

Kiera DesChamps, SVP - Business Development, WellRive 

Hello. Good afternoon, or good morning from wherever you are listening to our podcast right now. My name is Kiera Deschamps and I am the Senior Vice President of Business Development for our move management division, WellRive, at CRI (Corporate Relocation International). I am super excited today because we have a very, very, very special guest. The first time I met him, I said he was “the man, the myth, the legend”, and I began to bow my head down saying, “I'm not worthy” (laughs). I have a very interesting guest today. His name is Greg Gunderson, and I am going to let him tell his own story. But I wanted to just share...I just wanted him to know how honored we are to have him and how honored I am, in being in this industry for a little over eight years. Of course, there's no match to Greg and his experience. That's why I'm so honored to be able to have the opportunity to interview him today. So, without further ado...Greg Gunderson...tell me a little bit about yourself.

Greg Gunderson, President, Gentle Transitions of California

Well, Kiera, you're so nice. You're way, way, way too nice. But it is a pleasure to be with you today. I am coming to you from California, where I founded Gentle Transitions here in California in 1994. So, in 2024, we will be 30 years old.

Kiera DesChamps

Oh wow.

Greg Gunderson

We also need to know Kiera, that I was 12 years old when I started the business in ‘94 (laughs). I started the business here, inspired by my mother in Minnesota, who originally founded Gentle Transitions there in Minnesota through our own family experience - moving my grandmother, her mother. My mother realized that this moving thing is really, really hard for older adults and their families. And Kiera, I'm so excited because I have yet to find anyone anywhere in the country that has service like this until my mother created Gentle Transitions in Minnesota in 1990.

Kiera DesChamps

That's amazing. What did you see? What were you watching? With these two strong women in your family, trying to get through life? What were you seeing from the eyes of a child?

Greg Gunderson

My mother was a fantastic model for service, for taking care of people, and certainly within our own family. She was the one who took care of everyone - all the time. And that's why she stepped up when my grandmother needed help with her own move. And then I saw that model with my mother and I'd like to believe I tried to emulate that here in California, where we now have moved thousands of older adults. I've done many of those moves, but now we have a whole team that's done moves throughout the state. And I’d like to think that many of those folks today, are doing what I call “carrying a living legacy” of what my mother founded almost three decades ago now.

Kiera DesChamps

That is beautiful. That's amazing. I remember the first time I'd heard of Greg Gunderson and Gentle Transitions. And coming into the industry myself, I would just hear names here and there, going to some conferences and things like that. And it wasn't so much just talking about the business....it was really more about the people who ran the business. I thought that was so important, so I just feel like even though you and I did not connect in that way years ago, there was a connection that goes across the country, right? Those people that have been in touch with you, in touch with your mother, in touch with the business in some shape or form. I think what happens, and what resonates, are the people. So, tell me a little bit about the people in this industry, the people that you have hired and trained. 

Greg Gunderson

Kiera, the reason I was attracted to what my mother was doing - outside of creating a service that was completely and totally out-of-the-box at that time and still very much is kind of that way - but what really inspired my interest is that we make such an impact on people's lives and so many of our clients have been at home for 20, 30, 40 years. I think our record is probably 65 years – that a client has been in their current home.

Kiera DesChamps

Oh wow.

Greg Gunderson

So, typically we will move those folks in four to six weeks, and that's a big, big impact on someone's life. People's expectations for the moving experience is that it's going to be horrific. And with our service, not only is it not (horrific), it's actually really, really good. So even today, 30 years later, I'm inspired to work on a move and experience the impact we make on our clients' lives. And it's fun to see the reactions that people have when they get to the new home and they're so comfortable there.

Kiera DesChamps

Yes, absolutely. So when you look at, if you could give me, or give our audience, three things that you learned from your mother and learned from her as a business woman. I'm a business woman myself, so that’s already a kudos right there. But can you think of maybe three things that you took away from her as a leader? Of course, she was your mother, so I'm sure there are many things there. But just some of the things you can take away from this business and what she has set up as a legacy.

Greg Gunderson

I'm not sure if I can do three, but I can think of two things. One is that we should always respect people for what and who they are. People live in lots of different ways. I've learned to set up their new homes the way they would want them to be, not the way I would want them to be. That's hard to do, but it's all about trying to set up their home. They're going to live there, not me. So, I think that's really important - to try to carry out the customer's desires. The other thing is, and this maybe is basic, I don't know, but is to treat them as we would want to be treated. Or as if we were family members ourselves. And I know talking with our Gentle Transitions staff here in California, as well as the folks in Minnesota, if we take good care of our employees, they'll take good care of our clients. And if we do all those things then the business will take care of itself.

Kiera DesChamps

That's wonderful. Actually, I was going to ask you about your employees. When you first started, how many employees did you start with?

Greg Gunderson

So, it was zero for a very long time. I had a few helpers to begin with, but it was very, very small and it took a long time to develop, that's for sure. But yeah, we gradually increased our staff and were looking for people that were good with working with other people and working with these situations. A lot of what we do is what I call “managing family dynamics” and our client has one interest, the kids have another interest. And a lot of what we do is much like wedding coordinators, but for moving. We're there to orchestrate everything perfectly, line up all the ducks. But it's like with weddings - and with moving - things happen. The elevator breaks down, the truck doesn't work. They show up late. Those kinds of things. And the big part of what we do with the move is making things work well, even when things go bump.

Kiera DesChamps

And the things that go “bump”, we try to keep very quiet, and we try to make sure that the client does not see those bumps. And we try to minimize as much stress as possible because things will happen, and in working in this industry, sometimes we're telling clients, “First we're gonna start, and we're gonna pull everything out.” I always try to give them a heads up, like “OK, It's gonna look worse before it looks better, but I promise you we're going to make sure everything gets put back in its place.”

So right now, as far as the number of employees, you've been able to grow your business and company from a party of one, with you starting with a couple of people , to what capacity?

Greg Gunderson

We have about 50 employees here in California right now. And I do know that when I started the business, I had recently gotten married, and I knew the business would not be sustainable unless we set up a model in an organization. So, I knew that I could never do all these moves myself, would never bring home enough revenue to be sustainable. So, right from the get-go, we did look to build a team and an organization, so that it would go far beyond me. And today as we speak, we're doing a number of moves all throughout California and I'm here now, talking with you.

Kiera DesChamps

That's awesome. And when you do start your own business, anybody who’s an owner-operator, you want to keep your hands in everything and you want to be a part of every client and every project that's happening. But like you said, as you began to grow, you had to quickly understand that “I can't be everywhere at all times” and "I'm going to have to trust the people that I'm bringing in." So, in setting up that model of that quality, what are some key things that you tell your teams to make sure are done “the great Gunderson way” or the way that your mom had taught you, and it keeps passing along. So, how do you then expand that quality, and to ensure that quality gets passed on from time to time and client to client?

Greg Gunderson

So, we certainly have developed, let's call it, “methodologies”, that work well...that work well for our employees and that work well for our clients. We put that down on paper to share with our new employees, but our new employees also spend a lot of time with our existing employees, to have our existing folks show them the ropes and also have them work on a number of different kinds of moves. And they see lots of different scenarios. And while every move is different - and that makes it fun for us - I do think that there is a methodology in any situation which I think makes moves go well both for us and for our clients.

Back to the Podcast...

Kiera DesChamps

I had the pleasure of meeting and going into different communities and talking with several current clients and past clients. And I'm telling you, when they hear “Gentle Transitions”, or they hear “Greg” or they talk about certain people on your team...It's just radiant. It's so real. I wish I had a camera to capture it because people probably won't believe me when I tell them these things. But it's real and it's a reputation that precedes itself. It's just amazing, year over year, decade over decade - that quality, that customer service - all those things still stand firm, and that's amazing.

Greg Gunderson

Many of our moves are people leaving the home after many years, going into retirement communities. And in fact, it was just the other day when the sales director of a retirement community commented to us how pleased she was to hear that we are going to be involved in this person's move. Because, as she said, she sees a complete difference when someone engages a relocation service versus someone who doesn't. And people who don't...and we've seen this on many occasions and she commented about this, too...underestimate what this whole moving thing is all about. And when you bring an organization that comes in and understands what the process is and helps them through that, then those new residents, on their first day...the beds are made, the pictures are hung...and it may not be their home of the last 32 years, but it feels like home right from day one, and it makes such a difference for the community. And so, they're glad to hear it when we're involved.

Kiera DesChamps

That just gives that sense of peace, that sense of that “I don't have to worry about a thing.” It's a turnkey service. They're going to take care of me no matter what. That's amazing. Now that you have been in this industry, you've trained so many people, and you've done so much work, you’re at this time in your life where you’re having some conversations with your family, your wife, and you're thinking about life and travel and things like that. What time of life do you feel like you're in right now? Do you feel like you've accomplished everything you needed to accomplish? Is there more? Is there a book coming? You know, I'll be the first to get that interview if it does! (laughs). What's next right now for Greg?

Greg Gunderson

No books, that's for sure! (laughs). Actually, I'm really, really excited about our new relationship with CRI because frankly I was inspired, have wanted and dreamed of taking this senior relocation concept nationwide or regionally, certainly far beyond my means. Now that we have an association with CRI, I think that's going to put us on a great foundation to take those steps beyond "what Greg can do" in California and so I'm really excited about that.

Kiera DesChamps

Oh absolutely. I'm very excited. I'm glad that you're here and we still get to grab all that knowledge while you're here. But you know what? You've built such a great team that we're confident that the things that you've taught will continue to go on throughout the company. I met the team that you have - they're very solid and they're just really excited to continue that legacy and serving more and more clients. So, if the young Greg had to look back, look to the future, is this what you envisioned?

Greg Gunderson

You know, I'm gonna say yes, and actually I consider myself extremely fortunate, Kiera, that for 30 years now, I have been doing work that I enjoy. And to me, it doesn't matter whether it's a Tuesday or a Saturday. I'm getting up in the morning, looking forward to what I do. And I've so much enjoyed the business challenge of creating a business and making that functional. But I’ve also really enjoyed the client aspect of it as well. I did happen across a couple of clients last week and I still enjoy it and seeing them making a move come to fruition as I did 30 years ago. So, I've been really, really fortunate to have work that I enjoy and work that has purpose and meaning for me.

Kiera DesChamps

That's beautiful. Do you have a proud moment where you can look back and say, “I'm really proud of this” or “I'm proud that I was able to do that?”

Greg Gunderson

Well, even today, I really, really am proud when I do a job well. That’s thrilling for me. But what I really enjoy, and I didn't expect this, is that when one of my employees does the job really, really well. I actually enjoy that more. And one of the best things is to get a call from a client...if I'm at the office or something...and they expect the person working their move, owns the business. So, when our employees carry themselves that way, I think that's spectacular.

Kiera DesChamps

That's beautiful. I'm sure that gives you a sense of peace as well, to know that it continues to live on.

Greg Gunderson

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Kiera DesChamps

So, as you partner with CRI, I'm sure there's some changes that are happening around you as we start to merge and do some other things for the future...what advice would you give to me - in business development – and to us as a company? Or to us, as a whole, in the industry?

Greg Gunderson

I think the focus, as I mentioned earlier, is to perform quality work, and do that all the time. And if you do that, if we do that, if CRI does that, and I have every indication that CRI is committed to that as well, if we all do that, the business will take care of itself. And I fully believe that. We've done that now for my mother's original business in Minnesota. I'd like to believe we have in California. And I believe CRI will continue to do that in lots of other places.

Kiera DesChamps

Yes, absolutely. That's exciting. We're excited about our move management division of CRI. We're very excited to be able to offer full service solutions. There's so many moving parts as you know, and many people don't know until they are faced with a relocation. That all the moving parts and all the logistics that come along with it are part of our full service solutions, and we're able to get in front of the client and help them with their home sale because we know that's a barrier. I was just talking with someone about that today and just thinking of the punch list...”Oh, I've been in this house for 30 - 40 years. I need a new roof. It's got to be painted. The yard has to be done...” just to get it ready for the market. It hasn't even sold yet! So, there's so many pieces on top of the things that are inside of that home and making decisions and then trying to figure out where I'm going to move and when, and if. There's just so many pieces to this industry. Do you feel like, at times, you're the teacher, parent, family counselor? Therapist? Do you ever find yourself in all of those positions at once?

Greg Gunderson

All the time, all the time. And running an organization...that's a big part of it. And supporting our teams and doing that. I can also add this about our new relationship with CRI. Even to this day, people comment, “I never knew something like that existed,” or “If I only knew about you last month when I moved my mom,” so hopefully in the coming months and longer, CRI is gonna help get the word out that services like this exist for the betterment of lots and lots of people.

Kiera DesChamps

Yes, and just to be able to expand that reach for sure, because just like you said, “Where were you when...?" But I like it better when they say, “Oh my goodness, I could have never done this without you.” There's no way, and no matter what age...I know we talk about active adults, older adults...no matter what age, moving is just not a fun thing to do.

Greg Gunderson

Right. And, you know, one of the things that many clients have told us - very similar to what you had just said - which is when they write us a check for our services and they say, “You know what? There could not have been a better use for our money than to have your help with this move.”

Kiera DesChamps

Yeah, yeah.

Greg Gunderson

That's so exciting.

Kiera DesChampms

Yes...and I think the big challenges, too, are that people don't really understand how much that's supposed to cost. I think sometimes that the cost factor of what it costs to move 30 years ago and what it costs to move now. Sometimes you can't call your buddies, get a truck and give them pizza and a beer. You can't pay them like that, and if you do, you can't guarantee that everything is gonna come to the new home in one piece so just being able to have that conversation as well, because you just don't realize the cost of getting good quality service and that people are going to take care of you from end to end. That's also a barrier of getting this message out to people.

Greg Gunderson

And reliable, too. So, if your family's helping with the move, then the kid’s soccer tournament will come up, or something else happens. Or there's a business trip or whatever. And when you actually engage the service, they're going to show up when it's time for your move, and you won't have an “excuse call” from a family member.

Kiera DesChamps

I think a lot of it has to do with trust, too, Greg. So how do you get people to trust complete strangers, coming into their home, going through their personal items and photos and everything? Just that fear of, “You're gonna throw everything away and you're just gonna come in here and tell me what to do with my stuff.”

Greg Gunderson

A lot of that client trust, in our staff, has to do with the kind of people we hire. And when I'm looking at new prospective employees, and our staff is looking for that person, that when they knock on the door and they haven't even uttered a word, our client is already feeling relaxed and feeling assurance and feeling at ease. And then I think after that, it's how we carry ourselves. As I mentioned earlier, it's that we respect our clients’ things and the way they live, even if it's not the way we would. I think they pick up on that. I think our clients also pick up on how relaxed we are in this process and if we can be relaxed about it, they can be too.

Kiera DesChamps

That's beautiful. We get some of that resistance but like you said, the right person, the demeanor, all the above...that makes a huge difference. So, the key question here is...what are you going to do after you retire? You've been doing this for 30 something years, every day, in and out, seven days a week. All of these things, what are you going to do now?

Greg Gunderson

All right. Well, so two things. One is that I've always felt that, as I said, I've been so fortunate to do this business and that I wanted to find a job I never wanted to retire from. And that's where I've been for a very, very long time. But now I think that that may change somewhat. And if that does change for me, it's all gonna be about travel. My wife and I really enjoy travel. The planet is a very big place and there's lots of cool places here. And we'll look to do that should my Gentle Transitions life make a change.

Kiera DesChamps

Yes, absolutely. I can't wait to hear all about it - if you decide to travel or whatever you decide to do - I know that would be wonderful and it would be fun.

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.

Greg Gunderson

Alright, have a good one. Take care.